My statement was a bit of an intentional hot take. I was just trying to spitball a price 45HL might offer someone a Beast case without fans or PSU for, using a quick retail price search and some fuzzy math leaving a healthy markup. I was also trying to emphasize what one would be buying if fans and a PSU was not included. Many people here probably paid less for their first car than they would pay for a bare Beast. (As an aside, I think if someone brings their own PSU they pretty much will also need to factor in getting their own custom cables).
I recently purchased a third non-fully-built HL15 since launch a few years ago, so I understand the pros and cons to some extent vs the competition. But I canât say spending $1000 now for that goes down smooth as fine scotch, given the origin story of 45Drives was these were supposed to be commodity pods for dense storage farms, not âpremiumâ cases. It seems like with a bit of effort one could put together a simple bent metal case with equivalent functionality via services like sendcutsend.com.
Your points are all very good and valid, maybe itâs something that 45Drives can clarify?
I think the reason why people are bringing this up is that many people are looking to make their dollar go as far as possible, especially in these times. Some will see the included PSU, fans, SSD cage/backplane as unnecessary adding cost to something they already have (PSU, fans, etcâŚ), or have no intention of using (ie: SSD cage/backplane). I think many people (including myself) want a standard HL15 configuration, but bigger.
I do agree with you regarding power requirements, wiring and cooling. That being said, it is up to the customer to do their homework when putting a system together. I think 4Drives can include some recommendations (ie: noctua fans, minimum spec for PSU-1000w, etcâŚ) based on the configuration, but ultimately itâs the customerâs responsibility to do their research if they want to build it themselves vs buying a fully pre-built system from 45Drives. It would be no different then someone wanting to build a gaming computer and having to learn how much power/cooling they need based on the system they are putting together. Regarding the more complex wiring, I suspect itâs due to the included SSD cage/backplane vs the standard HL15 which only includes the 15 HDD bays/backplane, as it can be bought without a PSU. In all honesty, I donât think people are too afraid of complex wiring these days, we can thank RGB in gaming computers for that
If anything I also see this as a win for 45Drives, as it will allow them to see what people actually want. If you offer a base case option (ie: front 15 bay HDD cage/backplane, fan only tray in the middle (no SSD tray/backplane by default),no PSU or fans) and let customers decide if they want to add those options in the storeâs configurator, they will be able to see what configuration is more popular, thus helping them drive future project ideas/decisions.
DG: I donât disagree with your premise. A no-fans and/or no PSU option would be useful, especially given the tariff and vat situation in many countries. I was just pointing out that you might (?) be able to secure what you want via a special order. From the 45HL perspective, I think they need to be sure they can support what they sell, and too many configurations make that difficult;
Yeah, so I do totally get where you are coming from here. I do get the notion that the Homelabs Team canât manage an infinite amount of configs. And I can see why someone might say letâs just handle the no PSU, no Fans Base Beast SKU as an exception case.
Youâre probably asking that because weâve both seen Vikram handle some of those questions this way in the past sometimes.
So I get where you are coming from.
That said, that still creates another major issues here though
Which is that if they manage it as an exception, itâs sort of like going to In-N-Out and ordering 1 of the semi-secret items not on the menu.
As you say, it is possible
We can do it because Vikram is bending over backwards for us.
But the problem is this config is not on the official menu
Which means most people will never know about it
Only extreme insiders like us will probably know about it
And if this cheaper $1,450 (again, Iâm using your price estimate from above just to make this simple) is not on the menu then when all of the relevant TechTubers such as:
LTT
Jeff Geerling
Techno Tim
Level1 Techs
Lawrence Systems
Etc.
âŚwhen they all do their reviews on the Beast in the next 1-2 months, they may or may not mention that there is this secret special menu item on the menu that is way cheaper.
Which then means, the Beast base SKU is still going to get discussed and reviewed at a min price of $1,800 (Case, Backplanes, PSUs, and Fans) off the lot
Which then means that the bar that most or all of the TechTubers, other Tech media, etc. review this case at will be another 1-2 steps higher up the ladder than if the $1,450 SKU price was made the actual base SKU for the Beast for everyone.
But even worse is that most of the possible buyers for this case will also âreviewâ the Beast in their minds at a price of $1,800 vs. $1,450.
So to me, Iâm not sure having a secret menu item on the menu solves enough of the problems, even if it does solves some of them.
I think itâs better for all parties involved if we just rip the bandaid off and actually fix the root of the problem here.
Proposed Fixes
To me, I still think the 2 best ways of solving the problem is either:
Option #1
Create a 3rd SKU for the Beast
New SKU = Beast (Case, Backplanes)
Cost = $1,450 (ish, whatever they think they can do for us here by dropping the fans and PSU)
Option #2
I do hear DGâs point that there is a cost to maintaining additional SKUs, so if it truly, truly is not possible on the business side of 45 Homelabs to add a 3rd SKU to the Beast, then do this instead.
Replace the current base Beast SKU (Case, Backplanes, PSU, Fans) with
I agree, manufacturing is always difficult and trying to keep up with too many SKUâs can be problematic. All in all 45Drives made one heck of a case, that quite frankly has a lot of great features.
I think the big one really is the PSU, especially since the standard HL15 can be purchased without one. I know 45 Drives explained their reasoning (more complex wiring), but a way around that could be to create an instructional video and/or written guide with pictures to help customers wire it correctly. This could be a good stop gap for those who want it without the PSU. Furthermore, they can make it very clear on the site and in their instructions that the minimum requirement would be a 1000w PSU to power everything properly.
Me personally Iâm fine with all the options still coming with fans (I would be adding Noctua fans anyways), as well as the included SSD cage/backplane. I only suggested removing it in favour of a fan only option if it would mean they could sell the case without a PSU (due to the wiring). Thinking of it some more, coming up with instructions on how to wire it might be the answer to offering an option without a PSU (like the standard HL15).
At the end of the day, this is just constructive feedback. Thereâs no ill-will from any of these suggestions, especially not from me. If anything, these are things they can always consider and if they are able to great, if not thatâs fine too. 45 Drives understands their manufacturing capabilities better than any of us, so it has to make sense for them as well. I am grateful that they are willing to entertain one-off configurations if you contact them, so there is always that if needed. Either way I am sure 45 drives is listening, so time will tell if they are able to implement some of these suggestions. If anything, maybe these suggestions will help them with future products going forward.
I donât think itâs really about the headline wattage, I think itâs about the number of SATA/PATA ports and the amount of current available on the 5V rail. Iâm not a PSU expert, but I think most PSU designs, as they go up in wattage are expecting that load to be from the CPU and PCIe, not HDDs and especially SSDs.
Let me try to address both Spec7re and DGâs points:
I agree with Spec7re on the wiring piece.
As they said, Vikram said there is a little bit of complexity to the wiring, but like they said, a video should be able to cut through that.
I had to completely rewrite my HL15 v1.0 to install new fans and get around the limitation of it not supporting PWM out of the gate.
So I think a video makes it more than doable.
DG is making good points on the wiring that it may not be a pure wattage limitation
Thatâs fine. We can work with that too.
We just need clear technical specs on what bar a PSU needs to clear to work with the Beast.
So that plus maybe even a list of known good PSUs that are known to work with the Beast
Ex: the Corsair PSUs are often used
Motherboards often have the notion of a QVL list that lists the qualified CPUs, RAM DIMMs, etc.
So something similar would work great here.
DIY Technical Aptitude
We also should consider that the target user for the Base Beast SKU is typically different than someone who buys the Beast Turnkey with everything fully built and installed for them.
Turnkey buyers either donât want to (or donât have the time to) crank the proverbial wrench which is fine.
Whereas anyone who is buying the proposed revised Beast Base SKU (Case, Backplanes) or even the currently sold Beast Base SKU (Case, Backplanes, Fans, PSUs) is going to have a much higher level of technical aptitude by the very nature of having made the choice to build on top of the base SKU.
So most people buying the Base Beast SKU will likely be people who probably have done DIY computer builds before.
Most of the time, they will either know what they need to do or will at least know they need to ask or look something(s) up
I donât think itâs really about the headline wattage, I think itâs about the number of SATA/PATA ports and the amount of current available on the 5V rail. Iâm not a PSU expert, but I think most PSU designs, as they go up in wattage are expecting that load to be from the CPU and PCIe, not HDDs and especially SSDs.
Thatâs a good point. Iâm no PSU expert either, so I am not 100% sure as well, maybe this is something 45Drvies could clarify a bit more?
Whatâs the lead time on the fully built/tested ASROCK version? I was dragging my feet on the HL15 but this beast looks like exactly what Iâve been waiting for
Mine took about two weeks to be built and arrive at my house in Australia. If you are in a more reasonable posting distance it may arrive a bit quicker for you
Just saw that as well! This will be the option I end up going with. It shaves off about $300 from the purchase price as well. Thanks 45 Drives for listening to customer feedback!
Anyone know if you can squeeze a 240 radiator and a 120 radiator in here with some adapters? Looking to upgrade but I want to put an irresponsible amount of compute in the chassis.
Itâll take more than adapters assuming you want to use 3.5" drives. There is only about 40mm between the front plate and the drive cage. You could possibly create a custom front plate enclosure through one of the sheet metal fab services that would bump the front out a few cm and have mounting holes for your radiator setup and a more appropriate grille.
Youâd still need to consider that the drives get enough cooling and how you would route the tubing.
I think Silverstone and others make rackmount cases for liquid-cooling, but they may not have enough HDD/SSDs for you.
I guess you might be able to make that work physically, but Iâm not sure youâd get particularly good cooling doing that? Wouldnât the radiator be taking in warm air from the drives?
I would think it wouldnât be materially different from doing air cooling except the liquid cooling system would still more efficiently move heat from the CPU to the coolant. The delta T wouldnât necessarily be ideal due to the heat the drives are putting into the system but I suspect that it shouldnât be too bad (and that itâd still be better than air cooling because the rate of heat transfer in a liquid cooling system should be quite a lot higher than air cooling).
